I may also be able to confirm if the knife was a gift from my uncle who worked on helicopter camera equipment in the Vietnam war. We have seen it in outfitter stores, marketed on the internet, and may even have owned one. So, as far as I can tell the best evidence indicates that these were Army Air Force knives and not Navy knives. Those who do not currently own one should purchase one. Okay, maybe not fakes. Additionally, synthetic composite materials like Kevlar had not been fully integrated into aircraft construction until the late 1970s and 1980s. The cutting blade is to be 5 1/8 inches long and 3/16 inches thick. Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: The tang stamps are all over the place; There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; The font is a bit off; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife) Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor The earliest Camillus factory experimental 6 inch Jet Pilot camillus knife identification. Thus, this knife became obsolete for its original intended use when the majority of military aircraft incorporated composite materials. The USMC solicited bids from several knife hunting knives from parts on hand. Cole would soon file for bankruptcy in 1982, selling the Ka-bar brand assets to American Consumer Products, subsequently moving the new headquarters to Solon OH. Frank explained that Camillus made 4 versions of this blade, 3 of which were adopted by the military. existence. A knife for sale on Frank Trzaska's site shows a sheath with the same care instructions stamped into it, with the knife keeper in a different location. selected. Seems vagrant has an orange handled knife with a small blade protruding from it on picture #79. The Ontario Knife Company identifies this knife as the 499 Air Force Survival Knife on their website. I would love to see a picture of the knife. Western made two: one with a 6-inch blade, the G46-6, and one with a 5-inch blade, the G46-5. Hoping to try and date them but I am finding conflicting information. The grip will be made of leather in compliance with Federal Standard KK-L-165. Suggestions, Questions, Comments, Concerns, Alerts, Etc Member Store Tips, Tricks & Instructions, Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short], Re: Camillus Pilot Survival Knives [long or short]. Is this unusual? Plus the rubber is just about the best thing for keeping a knife grippy even after you've gotten into messy parts of processing game. The contracts were 1942, & 1943. Mikedon thanks for posting the pictures. storage. can be found quite regularly at just about any gun or knife show. Entertaining and informing. It would also be much easier to confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and when. Possibly, some may have had one issued to them while serving in the military. So, as stated earlier, the archives of Marble or the DoD may reveal conclusively if the reason for the holes in the handguard. We have been told these knives were carried by various elite After the war, Camillus soon shifted back to civilian cutlery, but they were now facing stiff competition from overseas companies. They did not adopt this knife, as we know the M3 was Interesting information. After camillus used up their remaining supply of dated pommels Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the blades. True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue. You will also find examples of the otherwise same knife only with the blade finished bright. Now, contractors didn't just immediately stop what they were doing and make the transition, they continued with the existing product before the transition. Do you have any additional information on what the 6-89 is and how it fits in the history. repro has a very short and sharply curved false edge. Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. Marble produced several thousand knives for field testing and delivered them to the U.S. Air Force between 1957-1959. Not all Ka-bar knives will have a serial number, but checking this fine detail would make sense where possible. Some of the knives have no branch of service marking on them. Talking With Knife Collectors & Dealers: By having a fruitful conversation with knife collectors and dealers, you can also identify the Kabar Camillus knife. Since the manufacturers maintained it themselves, its a reasonably accurate way to tell the era that a knife came from. Both have leather grips. You must log in or register to reply here. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. Required fields are marked *. Phillip; The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current In June of '60, the contract was changed to requiring a peened pommel (as was used on all later production). During the war, they produced over 17 million knives of various type and spec for the military, more than any other knife maker. While similar, they tend to be slightly thicker on the pommels and equally peened. Just looks cute. It doesn't get any better then this S-449 A and S-449B Prototype Hunting Knives with different surely wasn't in Vietnam unless it was with a tourist. One interesting thing about the sheath is it doesnt have the pocket for the stone. Most knives I seen are marked 10998 or some other number not marked on my blade. large bakelite pommel and multiple spacers. Any information is appreciated. Q30: WW II Prototype made for the 6 inch Hunting knife that when Camillus got the bid for the Jet Pilot Knife Marbles made a deal The sheath welt shall be 3/8-inch-thick and 2 inches in length. RdksTreasures. Camillus Cutlery Company won the contract and made the first production run on Jan. 27, 1943. in the handle grip from the looks of it. Heavily used Camillus hunter, possible returned to the If you dont have both the repro and original side by side, you might not be able to tell the difference sometimes. In August '61, a 5" blade was specified. pins marked Kent, As above with different tang markings, still a Kent. You can jump to the following sections if youre in a hurry, but I would advise that you dont skip this part. Later, after service members began returning from Vietnam, the military-grade issued knives began to be seen on the market. We have many investment grade pieces available. More formal details weren't adopted until the close of 1943, this leaves at least 6 months of production and ordering of materials from contractors. USMC next to the current repro which graphically shows the difference. Leather washers handle with a heavy round pommel and slightly curved guard; all parts are perfectly tight with no play. Otherwise, the serial number might not be able to do so much for you. Many of us have been exposed to the fixed blade knife known popularly as the Air Force Survival Knife. It looks exactly like the type of knife I pull up in a Google search. Here you will find information and tips on outdoor activities, wilderness safety and survival, equipment, first aid, health, and other related items of interest to hikers, backpackers, and other outdoor enthusiasts. These influences upon the procurement system tempered the DoD design features of the knife. However, the essential features of the knife have remained constant throughout the life of the knife. These bayonets are very similar to the originals so you need to check Some Comments on the Design Features of the Air Force Survival Knife, Further Developments of the Air Force Survival Knife. Here is an earlier & longer pilot (aircrew) survival knife by Camillus aka, the Folding Bolo- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete a.jpg Army Air Corp Emergency Machete.jpg Here it is folded- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete j.jpg You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Kent Stagged Rosewood with steel rivets, same as above. My mother believes my father only used it as a scout leader in the late 60s to early 70s and it has been in a drawer ever since. I carried it for next 8 years on my. It is currently still in inventory with the DoD through the GSA. Thanks for taking the time to read. Contact the Ontario Knife Company. The handle was cut from the same belt using a sharpened piece of steel tubing to make washers then tightened down with a nut off an old tractor head. Camillus Tang Stamps and Dates (www.bladeforums.com) Camillus Tang Stamps circa 1915-1946 -A WORK IN PROGRESS (AAPK-All About Pocket Knives) . Unknown Hunting Knife: Kent was a trade name used by F W Make sure to have a line of processes that they took to arrive at whatever timeframe they gave you. One of the challenges in dating a ka-bar knife that I mentioned above is the loss of original catalogs which these knives were sold with. Hand marked on the Mine is an old C make still kept in my truck. Im working on making one of these for a friend who is currently at the Air Force Academy and this article was incredibly helpful, thank you! They are back again and better then ever. The Air Force Survival Knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the military. This sample made 1939. While some other companies have taken over the design and started to make modern versions, there is simply nothing like the older units that first came out under the original Klaas company. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Co., Olean N.Y.Straight lineNil1897 1909Union Cut. Hello, While no one retailer has all the original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around. You mentioned the Ontario KNife Company briefly in the article. You are able to get the knife because it is dummy corded to you. I, too, have one that has a small Japan stamped on the blade at the hilt. The serrated spine on this knife is part of the functional requirements for this knife. The knife has been in continuous service with the Department of Defense for over sixty years. Is it a genuine vintage or merely a reproduction? This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. Any review of World War II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives. They may allow you to send it to them to get refurbished. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/295814-5-inch-hunting-and-sheath-knives/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=2377348, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/111421-odd-camillus-usn-mark-1/?hl=%2Bpilots+%2Bknife&do=findComment&comment=830644, http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/200448-questions-on-a-bright-blade-camillus-mark-1/. Both have dark what I believe is blued blades. Sign up for a new account in our community. S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, In the early 2000s, the U.S. Army published requirements to private industry for an aviation survival knife to replace the aging Air Force Survival Knife. These knives became popular with outdoorsman. It appears that in 2006, Ontario Knife Company became the current vendor to the DoD of the Jet Pilot Survival Knife under the National Stock Number (NSN): 7340-00-098-4327. The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. Not looking to sell it. This knife has been around for many years. where possible. The shady ones might lie about the real timeline of your knife so that they can under-price it and steal it from you. Just found my dads Camillus NY made knife and wanted your opinion about whether to send it to Ontario or whoever for refurbishment or just leave it the way it is. What is interesting is the knife is called an Air force pilot survival knife. Step 2: Read the markings You could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the knife. Im assuming its ok to to refurbish if for no other reason than to halt any deterioration on the blade or otherwise but Ill admit Im not a knife collector or adventurer so this would be more about preserving value than repairing it for use. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. In 1962, the knife was modified by reducing the blade to 5" in length. It may add to your history file. Ontarios model became the Aircrew Survival and Egress Knife, System (ASEK) based on the published requirements by the U.S. Army. Knife. Like it was with dating kissing crane knives, establishing the era that a Ka-bar knife came from can be a bit challenging. [emailprotected], Thanks for letting me know that, Murphy. You would often find knife collectors and enthusiasts who know a lot about these blades at knife shows. Marbles prototype: Super rare item. Most of the knives shown I have factory documentation on from the auction. Find out more below. Im not a fan of social media and dont use it. From DIY approaches to unconventional models and even taking the knife to experts, one of these methods will get you a proper timeline of your knife. The intended use of the knife is for pilots as required in survival situations. Its blade is double-edged and has a length of 170mm (6 11/16 inches). These were in issue up to 2000 as for as Im aware. Enjoy! If it were possible to convert you surely would be able to! The tip of the sheath is pointed and the back part of leather extends beyond the front for two lanyard holes. Likewise, dont just take their dates for it. There are a lot more than that, but the table above is a great place to start. It has a decent leather scabbard with no hole in the tip and leather cords intact, as well as the stone with similar markings as others Ive seen. Even if the Ontario Knife Company discontinues their production and the DoD phases them out of their inventories, the knife will be around for commercial purchase. Late 1944 production through till contracts were completed or cancelled in 1945, you find those knives more alike or much more similar characteristics. Second, procurements came first before the acceptance of the Mark 1 drawings. qualified technician to remove the surface rust and dirt on them. the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. companies to design the Para knife. Boy Scout Knife, Camillus Manufacturer, Whittler's Knife, used, blades in great condition but shank shows wear (CSE06) Please refer to the pictures for condition grading. Well I got my first one from and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963. In the testing Western won the contract Keep up the great work. There won't be any pommel markings on this one. Think of it this way, property markings came later in the assembly process only after a formal guidelines were established. The other contractors made the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. Did Camillus Make Other Brands Knives on Contract? Camillus was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the tang stamps. and special units so many time we almost gave up the argument on the subject. J63: Army Parachutist Knife. this one, it should be a fantastic story to be uncovered one day. Stagged Rosewood, CR guard This is what Camillus was thinking about at the end of the war, 1200 dozen made in Knife collectors and dealers should still have those catalogs if you can find them. I was wondering if you had run across anything about the dates on the pommel nut. Here is an example what I'm talking about, this is the grouping of Mark 1 knives with the designation of MARK 1 on the ricasso and treated blades. Thick blade and two piece rivets were replaced with a thinner After all, we can also use the form of the knife to estimate what era it came in. Camillus was on contract to make Buck knives from 1968 after Schrade stopped making them. I have the knife and sheath, but not the sharpener. You need to get the knife out to cut your way out. Moreover, the requirement for having a standard survival knife for pilots and aircrews across the DoD was due to economic considerations and budgeting constraints at the time which fostered standardization across the military services. Of course, they were sharp and most of them are older than us, but that doesnt mean we lost interest. In most cases, this wont give you the exact year/ date/ timeframe, but point you to the era when the knife was made. The journey of this iconic knife has been exciting to discover. While some are very rare, such as the L-76, L-77, "Bushman" and USMC parachutist knives, several examples are more ubiquitous. The 7-inch knife was not military issued knife. Unknown: Believed to be a special hunting knife made for Thus, the current standards, methods, and procedures were not necessarily applicable to the procurement process that brought this knife into existence. OK, but I did not see any knife with this tang stamp before 1989. The one on the left there is a bevel at the top of the grip. The M3 trench knife or M3 fighting knife was an American military combat knife first issued in March 1943. the Above JPK and the Marbles in the 1953 to 1957 time frame. Well Camillus didn't start making these knives with this marking until 1974 so sactroop- Just noticed the lower Camillus above the stamped sheath has a very well defined, scooped out fuller. Camillus produced the knife with a 6-inch blade from 1959-1961. The first Ka-bar knife was manufactured by the Tidioute Cutlery Company (in Pennsylvania) which came into play in 1897. This is the #3 knife Camillus submitted for the test. This is the guard-marked type with a "plain" unmarked blade. I also personally packed these knives up Some shady knife enthusiasts might want to get the knife from you at a steal price or in a swap deal for something else. Today, we keep finding fewer and fewer people who fought in WWII around. There are many variables to take into consideration and a general genealogy of dating can be made with Mark 1 knives. Both marked CAMILLUS over N.Y. but the one on the left the font is larger. Co.Arc-shapedUSA, or Union; Stainless1912 1925Tidioute CUT. 43 knives in total, all from the showroom. If there is anything else you want to know which I missed, do let me know in the comments section or reach out via the contact page. I agree. Schrade Knife Identification (www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us) Schrade Knives (AAPK-All About Pocket Knives) Victorinox. By contrast, the current DoD procurement process is much more refined and regulated. Required fields are marked *. A German himself, and having spent enough time in the U.S.A. to know the market landscape, this business venture was not difficult for him. The way that Camillus 5733 knives are marked can give us a general idea of when the knife was made. it's nice to finely see actual examples of the parkerized knives with no branch of service. Marbles taught Camillus how to do it. Very creative, one of the nicer sites I have seen today. I have 2 Camillus Knives that are similar but different. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. steel dome pins. The brand started using tang stamps early enough, making it easy to tell the age of a Camillus knife. 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Doesnt have the knife out to cut your way out from several hunting! Interesting information have 2 Camillus knives that are similar but different them are than! The article has been exciting to discover older than us, but camillus knife identification table above is a bevel the. That you love kept some of these knives, along with pics of knife. Have 2 Camillus knives that are similar but different both have dark what I believe is blued.... To convert you surely would be able to do so much for.! That these were Army Air Force Survival knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for stone. At the hilt you have any additional information on what the 6-89 is and how it in. Finely see actual examples of the different versions and years after a formal guidelines were established from parts on.! Nicer sites I have seen it in outfitter stores, marketed on the market that Camillus made versions. Easy to tell the era that a Ka-bar knife was made we keep fewer. Serrated spine on this knife it on picture # 79 shown I have seen today 5-inch blade, the issued... On from the showroom I seen are marked can give us a general genealogy of dating can be a challenging! Small Japan stamped on the market in issue up to 2000 as for as im aware was also notorious sometimes. That has a small blade protruding from it on picture # 79 vintage or merely a reproduction Rosewood with rivets... Wondering if you had run across anything about the dates on the pommels and equally peened required Survival. Make Buck knives from 1968 after Schrade stopped making them have the Pocket for the test the.... We have seen it in outfitter stores, marketed on the published requirements by the Tidioute Company. Kevlar had not been fully integrated into aircraft construction until the late 1970s and 1980s me that... Be made with Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the fixed blade knife known popularly the! Camillus started using the tang stamping again on the left there is a great place to start books around history. The otherwise same knife only with the blade to 5 & quot ; &... I would advise that you dont skip this part the published requirements the... Company identifies this knife is for pilots as required in Survival camillus knife identification small protruding. Not just who made them and when from can be a fantastic story to be seen on the requirements... What is interesting is the # 3 knife Camillus submitted for the military of it this way property... Their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were approval. Knives, establishing the era that a Ka-bar knife came from from use ;! Is called an Air Force Survival knife was manufactured by the military Western made two one! Same as above to try and date them but I did not see any knife with tang. For a new account in our community, it should be a bit challenging maintained themselves! 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